SteveW's Carrier indexing tips

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tooltech
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:34 pm

SteveW's Carrier indexing tips

Postby tooltech » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:56 pm

These really helped get my used press dialed in.

http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/foru ... highlight=

kcbrown
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:55 pm

Postby kcbrown » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:44 pm

I think the most useful way to add entries to this forum is to copy the original message here as well as linking to the original thread. That way, someone who is examining this forum doesn't have to follow links that may or may not point to something that's still there. Also, it makes this forum searchable.

Some of the entries in this forum aren't necessarily conducive to this since the bulk of the information is contained in the ensuing discussion, but sometimes the bulk of the good stuff is in the first posting, as with this one.

So, here's SteveW's original message that tooltech linked to above:

SteveW wrote:After looking at the video about modifying the case ejector to prevent an indexing problem, I would like to offer an alternative solution.
I don’t have my camera handy, so please bear with my description..

To try to avoid confusion I will use the ‘Lee’ names for each part as listed in the LM instruction sheet. You can get a copy of that here:
http://www.leeprecision.com/html/instruct/index.html

As I understand it, the problem is that on the downward stroke of the ram (upward movement of the operating lever [the cast aluminum lever with the wood ball on the end]), after the indexer is pulled out by the kick-over ramp (cast into the press frame), the shell plate rotates clockwise (backwards) enough to prevent the indexer from correctly rotating the shellplate at the end of the operating lever stroke (as the operating lever fully pushed up against the frame).

The lever just ‘bangs’ into the indexer and the shell plate doesn’t move. The press is jammed at this point and the shell plate has to be rotated counter-clockwise by hand to enable indexing to correctly take place again.

The fickle finger of blame for this indexing problem points at the case ejector, for having enough rotational ‘play’ in its fit on the carrier, which allows the shellplate to rotate clockwise, causing the problem.

I don’t believe that is the full case, but the ejector has some part to play.

First, understand that the indexer performs two functions.
1) It rotates the shell plate by using the operating lever to push the indexer against the circular ‘lugs’ on the underneath of the shell plate.
2) Once the shell plate has rotated 72 degrees, the indexer ‘slips off’ the shellplate lug and uses the remaining upwards travel of the operating lever to wedge itself between the shellplate lug and the body of the shellplate carrier. This action locks the shellplate into place so it cannot rotate on the next downward movement of the operating lever which lifts the carrier, shellplate and brass cases up towards the dies on the next cycle.

My opinion on why this problem happens is that the indexer is incorrectly adjusted and/or the ejector pawl needs adjustment.

Okay. Empty out the primer system and remove any brass from the shellplate or case inserter.

Cycle your press and watch the indexer after it is pulled out of the carrier by the kick-over ramp. You can see the contact made by the operating lever against the index flipper. The lever pushes the indexer which rotates the shellplate. Towards the end of the upward movement of the lever you should see the indexer slip over left, towards the frame of the press. This is the indexer wedging itself into the carrier to lock the shellplate.
You should now have no clockwise/counter-clockwise movement of the shellplate at all now. If you have, you need to adjust the index flipper on the indexer. More of that in a mo..

Now watch the index flipper as you start to cycle the press again. As you move the operating lever down to the end of the stroke the ‘rotation cam’ on the press frame rotates the index flipper by about thirty degrees. As you now begin to lift the operating lever back up, about mid stroke, the now rotated index flipper engages with the kick-over ramp and pulls the indexer out of its wedged position and unlocks the shellplate.

The shellplate is now only held in place by the position of the ejector pawl in one of the 5 holes in the shellplate, BUT, this should be a ‘no load’ situation on the shellplate. It shouldn’t move. It has no reason to..

If your shellplate moves clockwise as the indexer is pulled out of lockup by the kick-over ramp, then there is too much pressure being exerted by the wedge of the indexer between the shellplate and the carrier. The clockwise movement is the result of the ‘spring’ in the metal of the components at the point the wedge is released.

Job one is to make sure the indexer is correctly adjusted. Cycle the press and bring the operating leaver to its fully upright position. Feel the shellplate to see if you have any clockwise/counter-clockwise rotation.

If you DO NOT have any rotation, and the shellplate is locked tight, then cycle the press so that you can pull out the indexer in the middle of the next upward stroke. Rotate the index flipper clockwise by one complete turn while holding the indexer still. You have just screwed the index flipper further onto the indexer, shortening the overall length of the indexer. Put in back into the carrier and finish the cycle to rotate the shellplate. Cycle the press again. If you still DO NOT have any movement of the shellplate, perform this whole process again, to shorten the indexer by another complete turn. Keep doing this process until you DO have slight clockwise/counter-clockwise movement of the shellplate. Now do the process again, but turn the index flipper counter-clockwise (to lengthen the overall indexer). Now, when you cycle the press again, you should have no rotational movement in the shellplate and the wedge lockup of the indexer is correctly adjusted. Skip the paragraph below.

If you DO have movement in the shellplate and the operating lever is fully up, then cycle the press so that you can pull out the indexer in the middle of the next upward stroke. Rotate the index flipper counter-clockwise by one complete turn while holding the indexer still. You have just screwed the index flipper further out of the indexer, increasing the overall length of the indexer. Put in back into the carrier and finish the cycle to rotate the shellplate. Cycle the press again. If you still have any movement of the shellplate, perform this whole process again, lengthening the indexer by another complete turn. Keep doing this process until you DO NOT have any slight clockwise/counter-clockwise movement of the shellplate.

You now have the indexer adjusted to get the best shellplate lockup with the minimum insertion force on the wedge. If you ever have rotational play in the shellplate again, take the indexer out and lengthen it by one turn of the flipper.

Cycle the press again. As the operating handle comes up and the indexer is pulled out of lock by the kick-over ramp, watch the shellplate. Did it rotate clockwise? If it didn’t, cycle the press about 10 times to make sure the indexing problem doesn’t happen again, skip the rest and go get a beer..

If the shell plate did rotate clockwise, or during the cycling of the press the press locked up again, then strip the ejector off the press. Leave the rest of the press alone. Now look at page 7 of the Lee LM instruction manual. Look at the ‘Trouble Shooting’ section, last item on the page ‘Damaged Case Ejector Pawl’. As shown, use a pair of pliers and squeeze the pawl back towards the body of the ejector, taking great care to not bend the pawl up or down – just to the right. Put the ejector back on the press and make sure the pawl drops down into the holes in the upper side of the shellplate, as the shellplate rotates. Cycle the press and watch the shellplate again. Continue to adjust the pawl of the ejector until the shellplate no longer turns clockwise, or the press stops having indexing problems.

Then, if none of this works, go ahead and make the modification to the ejector. You haven’t lost anything by this but you might not need to modify the ejector.

Phew.

Steve.


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