Carrier misalignment and primer problems?

This forum is for links to threads that offer a definitive fix for a specific Load Master problem. Please post each link separately with a portion of a message that describes the problem or fix. If you want to discuss the issues further, please do so in the original threads.

Moderator: darwin

User avatar
darwin
Site Admin
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:11 am
Location: Central Indiana

Carrier misalignment and primer problems?

Postby darwin » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:02 am

http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/foru ... .php?t=153

OK, so over the past couple of weeks I have managed to run about 800 rounds (.40 S&W) through my press but it took a whole box (1000) of primers. I have two general issues:
1- over 10% of the time I get crushed, flipped, or bent primers. Yes, I have read all of the posts and watched the videos and checked the instructions.
2- The primer feed arm randomly jumps off the pin on the primer slider for no apparent reason. I have not seen anything concerning this problem anywhere.

I just got off the phone with a Lee tech. He told me the first thing I should check is the carrier alignment per the instructions on page 7 of the Load Master manual. My question is: has anyone had to readjust the carrier alignment? If so, how do you do it? As usual, the instructions in the Lee document are pretty crappy. It also says you should never have to do this adjustment unless you remove the carrier from the ram. When I tried to get more information from the tech he just said I should read page 7 and do what it says.

Sparky45
Posts: 986
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:12 pm

Postby Sparky45 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:18 pm

Pretty sure I have the same problem. Did you resolve your issue??

User avatar
darwin
Site Admin
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:11 am
Location: Central Indiana

Postby darwin » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:20 pm

Check the original thread - if it doesn't help, post a question on in LM forum.

rowe_s
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 pm

Postby rowe_s » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:35 pm

When I first got my LM I had some of the problem you are describing. I did the folowing.
1. debured all the plastic parts.
2. moved the sizing die to station two.
3. did carier ailnment again.

I watched closely as the shells entered the dies. They were moving as not in ailingment. I loosened the carier with the shells in the dies so it would line itself up that way, then tightened the carier bolt. Worked ok after that.

Wish I would have writen down the steps after getting it done. I'll have to do it again someday and wish I had good notes. But this describes my method as close as I can remember. (Another bad part of getting old.)

rowe_s
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 pm

Postby rowe_s » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:30 pm

I found with the ram raised you can look down through the sizing die in station 2 and see how close the primer is to center. It is clearer if you have the locknut screwed into the top of the die. It looks like bore sighting a rifle.

I took this picture to show what I mean. This shot was hard to get and I had the camera of center, but it shows what I am tring to explane.

Image

User avatar
Jumping Frog
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:17 pm
Location: Texas!

Postby Jumping Frog » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:38 pm

Interesting approach and pictures, rowe_s.

However, I am not sitting in my basement looking at my LM, so this is an honest question. When you rotate the carrier, aren't you rotating the primer feed mechanism as well? So I guess the primer pin will always be centered correctly relative to the carrier alignment? Therefore, correcting the carrier alignment as you describe is primarily helpful to have the cases align well with the dies and enter them smoothly.

Not criticizing, just trying to get the essential point nailed into my brain. To recap, the primary value is to ensure smooth case entry into correctly aligned dies. Right?

rowe_s
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 pm

Postby rowe_s » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:43 am

Jumping Frog wrote: To recap, the primary value is to ensure smooth case entry into correctly aligned dies. Right?


That’s correct. But if the casing is not setting straight do to bent rim or is on a physical bind to the side do to the turret being a few degrees out of alignment with the carrier. I think the primer will make contact with one edge of the primer pocket and cause it to flip.

My theory is, if a lot of primer flipping happens when a sizing die is in station two and the carrier is not aligned with the turret. If this is the case moving the sizing die back to station one would eliminate most of the priming problem provided the shell plate is not too loose and shell casing heads/rims are not dinged up.

User avatar
Citywaterman
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:05 pm
Location: Jacksonville Florida

Postby Citywaterman » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:32 am

I wish I could offer a solution, I'm just too new with the LM. I'm wondering what would have caused your carrier to become out of alignment? I have my sizing die in station two to assist with the priming (works great) and I feel it's a good set-up. Removing the sizing die and placing it back in station one doesn't seem to be the real fix. You should have the option to use the sizing die in station two if you want. I would call Lee back. Let them know what you did and hopefully they will be of more assistance. It must be frustrating. I'll look foward to see how things work out.
Last edited by Citywaterman on Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jumping Frog
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:17 pm
Location: Texas!

Postby Jumping Frog » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:29 am

rowe_s wrote:
Jumping Frog wrote: To recap, the primary value is to ensure smooth case entry into correctly aligned dies. Right?


That’s correct. But if the casing is not setting straight do to bent rim or is on a physical bind to the side do to the turret being a few degrees out of alignment with the carrier. I think the primer will make contact with one edge of the primer pocket and cause it to flip.

My theory is, if a lot of primer flipping happens when a sizing die is in station two and the carrier is not aligned with the turret. If this is the case moving the sizing die back to station one would eliminate most of the priming problem provided the shell plate is not too loose and shell casing heads/rims are not dinged up.

OK, I see your point.

One approach is to tweak the carrier alignment.

I take the opposite approach and tweak the turret alignment.

When I install a new turret, I put a case in stations 2 & 5 (sizing die and FCD). I raise the ram so the cases enter the dies, and then tighten down the turret. Takes about two seconds.

rowe_s
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 pm

Postby rowe_s » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:48 am

Jumping Frog wrote:
rowe_s wrote:
Jumping Frog wrote: To recap, the primary value is to ensure smooth case entry into correctly aligned dies. Right?


That’s correct. But if the casing is not setting straight do to bent rim or is on a physical bind to the side do to the turret being a few degrees out of alignment with the carrier. I think the primer will make contact with one edge of the primer pocket and cause it to flip.

My theory is, if a lot of primer flipping happens when a sizing die is in station two and the carrier is not aligned with the turret. If this is the case moving the sizing die back to station one would eliminate most of the priming problem provided the shell plate is not too loose and shell casing heads/rims are not dinged up.

OK, I see your point.

One approach is to tweak the carrier alignment.

I take the opposite approach and tweak the turret alignment.

When I install a new turret, I put a case in stations 2 & 5 (sizing die and FCD). I raise the ram so the cases enter the dies, and then tighten down the turret. Takes about two seconds.


Sure seems like everybody has different results and methods, and still get the job done. I'm beginning to think it would be a pretty tough job to write a manual. We need a Lee Load-Master rally where we all set up our presses, eat hot dogs, and compare ideas.

vdsgw
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:19 am

Postby vdsgw » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:02 am

I just had the same problem. I had only loaded about 300 rds of 45. I started getting tipped primers that I had not expericenced in the past. I found the powder return chain had loosened up the turret thumb bolt and the turret was moving. When I tightened the thumb bolt up the problem was gone. Hope this helps.

Sparky45
Posts: 986
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:12 pm

Postby Sparky45 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:45 pm

My LM got so wacked out that the only solution was to loosen the bolt on the bottom of the ram and realign the carrier. Darn thing wouldn't even index it was turned so far out of kelter. I guess the bolt/nut wasn't tightened well enough at the factory. Works fine now.

kcbrown
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:55 pm

Postby kcbrown » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:27 am

The original carrier on my LM had a broken casefeeder mounting hole (the section with the hole had sheared off). When I installed the replacement, I aligned the carrier by placing cases in all the stations, inserting the indexing rod all the way into the carrier to solidly lock the shellplate, and raising the ram so that the cases all went into the dies (I have a sizing die in station 2). I then tightened the carrier down enough that it wouldn't rotate, lowered the ram, and did the final tightening of the bolt with a torque wrench.

This worked very nicely. The only tricky part was tightening the bolt with the ram raised, since the handle is very much in the way and makes it difficult to get to the bolt. But it is possible.

Anyway, that ensures that the carrier/shellplate and the toolhead/dies are aligned exactly with each other. The method that Lee suggests is just an approximation, and I don't like approximations for things that are this precise.
Last edited by kcbrown on Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sparky45
Posts: 986
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:12 pm

Postby Sparky45 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:54 pm

Great post KC; I will give it a try tomorrow.
Thanks;

Sparky

kcbrown
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:55 pm

Postby kcbrown » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:39 am

Fixed the last sentence in my previous post (the carrier is supposed to be aligned with the toolhead/dies, not the ram! :roll: ).

Also note (for other readers -- Sparky already knows this) that you really do want to do the last part of the tightening with a torque wrench to the value specified by Lee, since I believe you risk breaking the carrier otherwise.


Return to “Load Master - Major Fixes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest