New Primer trough

Questions and discussions and troubleshooting Lee Load Master presses

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Smitty62
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:44 pm

Postby Smitty62 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:02 pm

acman, I had some real problems with it the first time I used it,missing primers and primers jamming in the trough but after those first 250 rounds it has run like a top since. I didn't do anything different but it started working fine and while I still have some trepidation when I start using it I really can't complain about it

acman
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:48 pm

Postby acman » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:33 pm

Been sitting here reading and looking for the answer all over the forum. So far,I hesitate to loosen the carrier bolt. I think I will take a hard look at the primer index pin / primer trough interaction as I know that's where things go south on me. I may go back to the old primer trough and just try to rework my damaged slider until more of us get familiar with the new one.

AC

WyrTwister
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:20 am

Postby WyrTwister » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:39 pm

acman wrote:OK, now I'll chime in...Smitty and me are in the same boat. I had my 9mm operation working pretty well with the old trough. I was on my second (spare slider that came with the press) I had slightly damaged it and was able to bend it back into shape. Changed over to 38 special after 1700 9mm and had a rough time with the priming from then on.
Wrote Lee and they sent me a new trough in lieu on the replacement sliders for the old trough. Great I thought, I read their tips on use and adjustment and so forth and went at it last night. I aligned my turret to the carrier with shells in all five stations, I made sure my dies were not stopping me from a full stroke of the ram I visually checked that the primer pin was coming up in the center of station two at the bottom of the carrier stroke, I checked my primer depth setting etc, etc, etc.
After all this I got nothing but heartache with this priming system. I did struggle through 75 loaded 38 specials but I had the priming pin jam in the up position at least once every five or so shells due to more than one primer in the pin's slot. Gave it a bunch of thought at work today and when I got back I figured to give it another whirl.
What I discovered is that more than one primer feeds into the slot. with two in there, well you know the drill..I am getting one upon the entry of the shell and then it seems one more enters when the index pin hits the primer trough assembly on the way up. I thought I noticed that a second sliding of primers was happening on the way up last night but brushed it off as just the bumps or something jarring the primer assembly.
I decided to run the carrier around with out any shells but with primers in the trough and sure enough, there's a primer even with no shell. After the second stroke , the pin jams and indexing comes to a halt.
Now I am going to re align my carrier since that is the only dang thing left that I could be accused of doing wrong but I can not see how my carrier came out of position from the factory especially as my 9mm was doing relatively fine before the caliber change with the old trough and damaged slider.
Thoughts, advice, kind words...fellow LM users?
Smitty, I'll let you know how this turns out for me.

God Bless,
AC


I am running the new LM primer assembly , loading .38 Special .

I have run into a serious problem . Components keep disappearing ! :-)

I am now out of bullets ! Need to get off my behind and cast some more .

First , clean the press Spick and Span . Then lube the press . Empty the old primers in the ram .

If you feel carrier alignment is good , re-align the turret with the carrier & lock it down .

Remove the primer assembly , raise all your dies a predetermined amount & check if tou are reaching Top Dead Center with the ram / carrier . Is the bump on the right hand side of the handle hitting the black link ? This is the mechanical stop .

In turn , adjust the dies down / in , in stations 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 & 5 . Make sure none of the dies are down far enough to prevent you from reaching TDC .

Now , put the rest of the press together & try it ?

If you still have problems , remove the carrier & see if it is cracked where the primer lever pin / fulcrum fits in the carrier .

God bless
Wyr

acman
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:48 pm

Postby acman » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:55 pm

Yeah, Wyr,
I also ran out of cast boolits so I spent all day ingoting and made a pile of 158 gr tls in .356 for my 38 special, going to clean up now and lla them.
At least my Lee six banger is working like a charm! ( at least now I feel better!)
I will take another swing at the LM tonight and tomorrow using a lot of the advice on this forum. I watched all of Shadow's videos and so now I feel like I can see a bit more about the system. I will grind that primer depth bolt smooth as I was getting a few primer depth variances along with the primer pin jamming.
I also will make sure my carrier bolt is snug and I may as well do the case ejector mod. Will clean every speck off as well.

I'll let you know how this works out.

God Bless,
AC

myloadm61
Posts: 948
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:59 pm
Location: Montana

Postby myloadm61 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:57 pm

Can I post an observation without the thin skinned people getiing mad?

I have and use three LM on a daily basis, sometimes not all three each day, but all in all use them for most calibers above 9mm, including rifle calibers. I never have to adjust anything after the initial setup, other than changing shellplates and powder settings for different calibers. I guess what I'm wondering is why are there so many problems?

User avatar
uniquedot
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:41 pm

Postby uniquedot » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:37 pm

myloadm61 wrote: I guess what I'm wondering is why are there so many problems?


Beats me! I have often wondered if mine was special since i don't have problems, but if you have three with no problems i am more inclined to think it's operator error.

Smitty62
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:44 pm

Postby Smitty62 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:47 pm

There is actually more than one answer to that question: The generic one being that the loadmaster is made by people and anything made by people can and will break or malfunction. Now for me personally almost every time I have had a problem with the press it was self-inflicted. Either I missed a case that had crimped primers, a small primered 45 case got in with the large primered cases or I let the primers get too low in the trough. I did have a few problems with my new-style shellplate as the hole for the spent primer in the .40 shellplate was a hair too small and didn't allow the spent primers to fall completely through. As we all know two physical objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time which led to a few primer detonations until I opened the holes up a little more. I would venture to say though that most problems with the loadmaster are, like mine, self-inflicted. And of course the more you load the greater the chance of parts wear or breakage. I do expect my loadmaster to work correctly when I go to reload even though I still am a little leery of the new primer assembly although it has performed flawlessly after the issues I had with it the first time I used it.

WyrTwister
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:20 am

Postby WyrTwister » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:50 pm

myloadm61 wrote:Can I post an observation without the thin skinned people getiing mad?

I have and use three LM on a daily basis, sometimes not all three each day, but all in all use them for most calibers above 9mm, including rifle calibers. I never have to adjust anything after the initial setup, other than changing shellplates and powder settings for different calibers. I guess what I'm wondering is why are there so many problems?


I have an observation and a theory .

There are more than one thing that can cause primer jams .

One very common one and probably one of the most preventable .

There for a while ( can not remember which caliber? ) I was getting brass that did not get de-primed .

This means , when you hit station 2 , the machine is trying to push a new primer into a primer pocket that is still occupied ! This puts great stress on a lot of parts .

If you try to force things , I think it is likely that you may ( through pressure exerted by the index bar ? ) force the carrier to rotate counter clockwise ? Especially if the draw bolt is not quite tight ?

Now you need to re-align the carrier .

Part of the above problem was caused by the de-priming pin not being low enough and / or the collet not tight enough .

Another issue is running low on primers . Either because they are bridging in the primer tray or just running out .

God bless
Wyr

acman
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:48 pm

Postby acman » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:30 pm

Hey Y'all
Not thin skinned mabey thick sculled however. But seriously.. last night I removed the shellplate and discovered that the primer pin spring had been bent over. I straightened that out and reinstalled the new trough and my issue went away for a bit, 30 shells or so, thought I had figured it out but then wham- right back to the same old issue.
With no shell in the shellplate, the primer feeds anyway.The bumps on the frame as well as the primer wedge bar are enough to shake a primer loose into the trough. I will check to be sure the primer lever is going all the way forward smoothly( towards the shellplate )
I am sure I am missing something and it will seem so simple once I do get it solved. I would hope that the problem does show itself so as not to just go away so that I can avoid this in the future.
I have resolved myself to learn how to tune this machine and keep it running smoothly before it's over.
Thank you for your input, it's what myself and everyone else with issues needs.

AC

WyrTwister
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:20 am

Postby WyrTwister » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:50 am

I guess I am a little thick skulled , to .

The primer system is feeding primers , even when you cycle the press , with out brass ?

That is a puzzle ?

Have you taken the new priming assembly apart and looked at the new slider ? Maybe it is defective from the factory ?

My LM is still set up for .38 Special and it is not doing that , I just tried it .

Do you have the new red - large primer assembly ? Does it do it too , on your press ?

Pretty sure the red primer assembly does not do it , on my LM , either .

I find myself watching primers move down the trough , one by one , when I am loading . I have a certain level of confidence that as long as they maintain this march , each case is receiving its primer , for if there were a disruption , the steady progression would come to a halt .

God bless
Wyr

prs
Posts: 851
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:44 pm

Postby prs » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:16 pm


Well; it seems clear that the new parts design is NOT going to solve the complaints regarding mis primes. Too bad. What puzzles me is that if the press is set-up properly and cases prepared (deprimed and sorted for promer size), there there is no issue anyway. The part about keeping a good number of primers in the trough has puzzled me too. I can run mine dry and not get a mis-prime until that last one is gone -- well, I do admit that I don't do that very often as I typically change primer trays when the upper window of the trough top is empty.

If having erratic primer flips and crushes, I say clean-out that spent primer collection space, better yet do the spent primer catcher mod. Make certain you have a rock solid mount, and check for cracked carrier.

This has to frustrate the H377 out of Lee.

prs

acman
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:48 pm

Postby acman » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:45 pm

Update here, The good news is my press has never run smoother. I can testify that my press is not the issue. On the other hand, my new primer trough is just not working out for me.
Here's what it's doing. With the trough assembly off the press, I can fill the tray with a few primers and simulate primer feed action by sliding the primer arm by hand. When I do this, I get one primer into the slider position and one primer hanging halfway into the slider position. When the slider is pushed back towards the press, the result is a bind between the primer that is supposed to be there and the extra primer. If the slider dose push the primer forward, overcoming this bind, then both the dedicated primer and the errant primer slide into the primer ready to install slot.
It is likely that I damaged the trough assembly in the beginning by over tightening the slider arm screw after having inspected it for burrs before use.
I also had my primer pin spring misaligned and that could have been a factor as well. I did disassemble it and found some burrs on the top of the cover over the slider that were a result of so many jams. I removed these and smoothed everything out with a very fine sandpaper. Now I get the double primer action.
During the cleaning of my press and when I emptied the spent primers from the base of the ram, I found a bunch of my new unspent primers in the mix as well. Obviously the slider was pushing the extras right out the end of the trough and into the bottom of the ram.
I have a pretty good idea that the new little curly q shape of plastic that projects into the slider area is either damaged or warped out of position, and it is this piece that prevents the free flow of primers that I am getting down the main chute.
I already have a new one on it's way and so I will then be able to tell what is up (hopefully) by comparing the two.
I am still very happy with the system in general and as a result of this incident, I am more determined than ever to be a prime on press expert.
My wife jokingly calls these incidents the acmann stress test and so far I don't know who is ahead, but I know I will prevail in the end and so I will not be accepting any pms with an offer to take this press off my hands.
BTW my press is thru bolted to a semi circular piece of aluminum that is 5/8 thick, the plate is bolted to the top of my bench. This is 1/2 of an 18'' diameter circle that I got at our local surplus shop. Flex is defiantly not an issue with this baby.
Thank you all for taking your time to comment and thank you Smitty for starting this post.

God Bless
AC

Smitty62
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:44 pm

Postby Smitty62 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:03 pm

AC, I hope your new one takes care of the issue. It sure sounds like that is all you need. Keep us posted.

El Hombre
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:04 pm

Postby El Hombre » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:02 am

myloadm61 wrote:Can I post an observation without the thin skinned people getiing mad?

I have and use three LM on a daily basis, sometimes not all three each day, but all in all use them for most calibers above 9mm, including rifle calibers. I never have to adjust anything after the initial setup, other than changing shellplates and powder settings for different calibers. I guess what I'm wondering is why are there so many problems?


Some people are just mechanical idiots.... My younger brother is one; he came over to my house for a trip down to the big lumberyard in San Francisco. Ford PU had a flat tire, I pulled the spare out from under the bed, jacked up the front end, and impact wrenched the nuts off the studs. I put the spare on the hub and let my brother install all the lug nuts while I got the flat inflated and started spraying the soapy water on it.

Came back to tighten the lug nuts; all eight of them were installed with the conical surface out. It's obvious he noticed there was a difference to each side of the lug nut, he got all eight the same way. I asked if he saw anything wrong with the way he had installed them; nope.

From some of the posts at Calguns, The High Road, Glock Talk, it's obvious the mechanical idiots buy Dillon's stuff. They can't deal with something that requires some intelligence on the part of the user. I think that the Lee family's background in tool and die is the reason it requires at least 50th percentile mechanical reasoning to use a LM. Which means at least half the population won't be able to use one.

My dad was a wood model maker at Fisher Body for 32 years. He made full size wood models of the fender, hood, door, trunk lid, you name it, to a .010" tolerance from the blueprint. Including the curvature and all the character lines the stylist's included. That wood model is what is sent over to the tool and die people to make a stamping die to bang out the parts. So I had my dad explaining things to me, plus my own ability.

So I had some nature and nurture when it comes to understanding how mechanical things work....how many of you are still trying to figure out why I was spraying soapy water on the flat? I know you're out there..... :) Potential Dillion owners.

I got my LM back in '95 or '96, well before there was an internet to tell me how horrible it was. I just mangled my first primer slide, still was the original one that came with the press. I figured out it was the crimped primers that were causing the problem, reamed primer pockets on all the brass that was range PU from that day. No more primer issues.
It's not polishing a plastic trough or any of the other weird ideas I read here, just understand how it works and use it.

myloadm61
Posts: 948
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:59 pm
Location: Montana

Postby myloadm61 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:49 am

El Hombre, thank you, you are exactly right. The equipment(Lee) works as it was designed. The "problems" associated with it are "operator" created 99.9% of the time. I've never had to cut, scrape, file etc any of the parts on any of the three(3) LM I use. If there is a problem it's because I was distracted in some way or wasn't paying attention. Short stroke a LM and you have just created a big problem, primer failure, powder prob, index problem, double feed on case feed, etc, etc.
Let's be fair and truthful, the problems are caused by operator error, and El Hombre is correct about the mechanical apptitude. You've got to have some or you will have problems. But that is true with all of the different brands of presses. None of them run themselves.


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