Gen 3 trough modified

Questions and discussions and troubleshooting Lee Load Master presses

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Smitty62
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Gen 3 trough modified

Postby Smitty62 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:33 pm

I got my new gen 3 small primer trough, revised edition, today and of course I had to try it out. Didn't have much time but I ran 100 40s' through without one problem. I had zero missed primers and zero tipped primers. I think John Lee may have gotten the glitches worked out. I am planning on changing over to run 9mm this weekend and will post if I have any problems but right now it is looking good.

prs
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Postby prs » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:38 pm

I'll drink to that; after the loading session, of course.

prs

Smitty62
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Postby Smitty62 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:26 pm

Thought I would load up some more 40 before I change over to 9mm this weekend and wound up running 250. Again, zero missed primers and zero tipped ones. After using the gen 2 and the initial gen 3 troughs I have to say that this one is starting to impress me. Has anyone else tried this yet and if so what are your result?

XDM9guy
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Postby XDM9guy » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:52 pm

I've tried the Gen 3 revised primer trough with 9mm with terrible results. 6 failures out of 25 rounds, a combination of sideways and one upside down primers. None skipped though, I guess that's good news? I've had great results with the large primer 45acp though, 100% out of about 300 rounds.

Craig

prs
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Postby prs » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:26 pm

Well, unless someone has some bight ideas, I give-up on 3B. I've tried all the tricks I know and it hangs-up the primer punch, binds the press, and all that other junk. The original zips right along.

prs

Smitty62
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Postby Smitty62 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:31 am

prs, Have you tried it on any other caliber? While I didn't have to do it to mine Darwin stated in another post that he had to burnish the hole, slightly enlarging it, to obtain free movement of the primer pin. And speaking from experience, yeah I get dumb once in a while, have you double checked to make sure you have the right size primer pin in? I removed the small pin one time to change over to 45 and replaced it with another small pin. Then spent some time wondering why it wasn't working before I finally figured it out. Good luck with that 38.

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daboone
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Postby daboone » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:41 pm

I ain't fixing what ain't broke. I'll take the original and my stash of replacement parts to my grave. 8)

Smitty62
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Postby Smitty62 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:15 pm

daboone, I hope that isn't anytime soon. I did get changed over to 9mm today. I made a few changes as I never used a die in station 2 for 9 before. I put the Lee universal flare die in two and my powder-thru die is reset for 0 flare. I ran 250 through and had two issues. Both were self-inflicted as I let the primers run down in the trough til I could no longer see them and missed one primer. I was curious as to how low the supply could get before it missed. Now I know. The brass was range brass and I found one that I missed swaging which led to an incompletely set primer. Other than that it was flawless. So far this trough is working as well as the original style.

prs
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Postby prs » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:32 pm

Smitty62 wrote:prs, Have you tried it on any other caliber? While I didn't have to do it to mine Darwin stated in another post that he had to burnish the hole, slightly enlarging it, to obtain free movement of the primer pin. And speaking from experience, yeah I get dumb once in a while, have you double checked to make sure you have the right size primer pin in? I removed the small pin one time to change over to 45 and replaced it with another small pin. Then spent some time wondering why it wasn't working before I finally figured it out. Good luck with that 38.



I did verify that the primer pin was a small and I did verify the small pin fit the hole with plenty of clearance. The clearance issue on mine is the larger diameter section of the primer pin were the primer lever fits. The pin is binding in. the "well" or recess in the bottom of the trough floor. I even removed the carrier and assembled the priming fixture with filled primer tray so I could operate it in my hand and directly observe the whole process from below. In that relaxed position, it works great and does not hang-up. Back on the press, it hangs-up within five rounds. I "think" maybe possibly perhaps primers are bridging on the stage where they exit the down ramp of the trough. This seems to sress the primer pin and allow the primer pin lever to be forced against the side of the slot where it enters the well. The little primer pin return springs are taking a beating too, and I distorted the ends of several of them. Reverting to the original small primer fixture restored totally reliable function.

Your success with 40 S&W and the 3B primer fixture gives me enough hope to hold judgement for now to see how others are doing. Your die set-up is similar to mine, except I use an "M" die in 2 instead of Lee's universal.

prs

myloadm61
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Postby myloadm61 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:50 pm

prs I've had almost the exact same problem. Didn't solve it before going back to the original proven system.

StaTiK
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Postby StaTiK » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:47 am

I've always wondered how 9mm and 40 can use the same shellplate. I understand that the case retainer makes up for the difference in diameter for RETENTION, but the center points are obviously different.

The case retainer would actually make this worse since it doesn't "center" the brass but rather pushes it completely to one side. In order to make the primer pockets perfectly centered the system would need either a new shellplate or some type of shim on the inside (imagine brass buttons on the inboard side of a case).

I guess the only answer is that the differences aren't significant enough... but in a hobby where thousandths of an inch matter this can't help.

-StaTiK-

prs
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Postby prs » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:13 pm

StaTik;

For whatever reason, it seems not to be problem. With old primer fixture the primers line right up with the pockets. Those of us who have either a resize die or M die in station 2 will automatically get the case centered.

prs

myloadm61
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Postby myloadm61 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:25 pm

The shellplate for 9mm/40s&w isn't off very much. Measure the recess and the outside diameter of each case. Divide each by two(radius which is what you are dealing with), subtract from each other and the difference is only .0011(eleven ten thousands). Run that number on your caliper or micrometer and you will see that it isn't very much.

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daboone
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Postby daboone » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:26 pm

prs wrote: Those of us who have either a resize die or M die in station 2 will automatically get the case centered.prs


Yep PRS nailed it, for me it's the Lee belling die or a Lyman M-die in station #2 that does the job.

myloadm61
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Postby myloadm61 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:33 pm

Just a thought about the orig priming system thru gen 3 modified. I just finished running some 223, 40 s&w, and 38 spl and each with different priming system and no problems with any of them. The one significant thing I have done is to modifiy the case retainer at station two so that it has constant pressure against(besides the screw and washer) the case. I did this by drilling a small hole in the rear of the retainer and a hole in the area of the case slider, made a spring to create tension on the retainer to help keep it from working loose. Seems to work good so far. I need to find a little bit stronger spring material I think though.
I am about of the opinion that all of the priming systems will work fine as long as there aren't any burrs on any of the parts.
Still like the original the best.


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