Just bought a press with no powder measure

Questions and discussions and troubleshooting Lee Load Master presses

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rekarstien
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Just bought a press with no powder measure

Postby rekarstien » Thu May 21, 2015 5:12 pm

I just bought a press with no powder measure and I see Lee has 2 different a round one and a square one. The square one you don't need the chain it is set up with a spring. What are your thoughts and what is the advantage of one over the other?

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darwin
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Postby darwin » Thu May 21, 2015 11:03 pm

Generally speaking, the ones with a chain are considered to be safer. When operating a press, especially a progressive press, things can go wrong, causing the operator to short stroke the press. You are lowering the handle, you see something isn't quite right, you stop, clear the malfunction and continue on. The problem is that you can back up the ram and with a spring loaded powder measure, that will result in a heavy charge.


It doesn't sound likely, but it happens.

With the chain, when you reverse the motion of the ram, the slack in the chain keeps it from increasing the charge.

Other things being equal, go with the one with the chain. They are easy to set up if you just folow the instructions.

WyrTwister
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Postby WyrTwister » Fri May 22, 2015 12:07 pm

Some people make fun of the " toilet chain " . Knock on wood , I have never broken mine .

If you are loading rifle calibers , I think the Perfect Powder Measure can be adapted to run on the LoadMaster ?

God bless
Wyr

PS Do not be surprised if you need to go 2 disk cavity sizes larger than indicated in the Lee book . This is normal . Mine is usually repeatable to + - .1 grain .

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Derwoodski
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Postby Derwoodski » Fri May 22, 2015 3:07 pm

Just to play the devil's advocate, Loading pistol calibers, I have converted My Pro Auto Disc measures from chain to spring return, using powders that make a double charge really obvious and looking in every case Make it easy to catch overcharges, totally worth it to me to get rid of the PIA chain. I could see where it would have value for Rifle Calibers where a double charge wouldn't be as obvious/visible, but for pistol stuff, not so much. YMMV

john127
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Postby john127 » Fri May 22, 2015 9:06 pm

I agree with what the others are saying. That is, don't trust the stock spring return for use on the Loadmaster. I started out with the Classic Turret & it worked fine there, but switched it over to the chain return when I bought my Loadmaster to make sure it did return the way it's supposed to.

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Hawkmoon
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Re: Just bought a press with no powder measure

Postby Hawkmoon » Sat May 23, 2015 12:10 am

rekarstien wrote:I just bought a press with no powder measure and I see Lee has 2 different a round one and a square one. The square one you don't need the chain it is set up with a spring. What are your thoughts and what is the advantage of one over the other?


The round one is the Pro Auto Disk. It can also be set up to run with a spring -- on the Turret Press, that's the only way it can be run. I've been using mine that way for years.

The biggest advantage to the Pro is that the hopper attaches to the base with two brass screws, so it's easy to remove just the hopper to return unused powder to the container at the end of a session. Also makes cleaning easier. And it's easier to change the disks when you're working up loads.

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Sparky45
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Postby Sparky45 » Sat May 23, 2015 10:08 am

I agree with Hawkmoon in that I run the Pro on my LLM and the rectangled hopper on my Turret press. The Pro on my LLM is modified to run with a spring as per Carload's modification.

john_bud
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Postby john_bud » Mon May 25, 2015 9:51 pm

Using the chain, it would not fully cycle unless the chain was TIGHT at the bottom. But that made it break many times. Not fully cycling has lead to measured throws of 0.9 - 1.5gr on a target of 3.6gr. Squib town!

It's easier fo me to see a double charge vs a 1/2 or 1/4 charge.

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Derwoodski
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Postby Derwoodski » Tue May 26, 2015 2:57 pm

One other small advantage of the Pro Auto disc (round) over the Auto disc (square) is that the powder hopper can be rotated to turn it "Off" and the disc emptied prior to removing the hopper &/or to changing powders.

carload9
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disk

Postby carload9 » Wed May 27, 2015 11:43 pm

And you can change disk without taking hopper off machine. Yes l do use mm's 2" spring and eye bolt from Home Depot. Also mine drops powder only, it does not expand. l expand in station 2 with lee finger adjuster. L use a seater that seats only, no pre-crimp. I use custom expanders.

gunnels
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Postby gunnels » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:40 pm

Hands down the round one is the deluxe model. It is by far better. Being able to turn the powder flow on and off allows you change the disc much more easily. I had the square and upgraded to round and it was the best money I ever spent.

It didn't matter to me if it had a chain or spring. They both work. BTW, the spring was not perfect. Sometimes it would catch.

Horseman
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Postby Horseman » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:35 pm

The Pro Disk is the better of the two but the "square one" also does a good job. I have both but have the Pro on my LM. I have used the regular disk measure on my Dillon 450 when I want to "automate" the powder drops and it is just as consistent as the Pro model as far as powder charges. As to the chain-spring debate, I'm with Wyr, I"ve never broken the chain on a Load Master and you won't if it's correctly adjusted. The spring that comes with the measures are waaay stronger than they need to be also. To me it just adds that much more pressure on the down stroke of a press that already has everything happening at the top. Plus the chain return IS a safer system. JMO.. and worth the price :D

WyrTwister
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Postby WyrTwister » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:30 am

john_bud wrote:Using the chain, it would not fully cycle unless the chain was TIGHT at the bottom. But that made it break many times. Not fully cycling has lead to measured throws of 0.9 - 1.5gr on a target of 3.6gr. Squib town!

It's easier fo me to see a double charge vs a 1/2 or 1/4 charge.





Were you using the spring at the bottom of the chain ?

God bless
Wyr

GhostlyOne
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Postby GhostlyOne » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:09 pm

Everything these guys are saying makes sense and is correct. My only problem with the chain was that it was in the way every time i had to reach into the press to do any thing. I do not use a bullet feeder, (sorry Carload 9) just cannot afford one, and with my fat arthritic hands, it was a hassle to place bullets.

I converted my pro powder dispenser to the spring, Carloads, MM's ideas, and use the following procedure to insure a consistent load.

1. Weigh and measure all cases to select within .1 grain. (yes, it is a PITA, but you only have to do this once until you wear out the case)
2. Keep cases in 50 or 100 round MTM case boxes segregated by case weight.
3. Load as normal in case weight batches. I have found that I have about three different case weight batches, so I can load as many as 500 similar case weights. I also segregate by head stamp.
4. Weigh the finished rounds individually looking for light or heavy readings. I have found that my finished rounds do not vary more than .5 grains. Weighing the cases with a digital scale makes the process very fast. Very small load volumes are done via the trickler method and subjected to the same process.

This process adds a bit of time to the process, but not much once it is set up. It also gives you one additional chance to inspect the finished round, check for case cracks, COAL, etc. Plus it makes me (at least) more confident in my loads.

Yeah, I know, anal retentive.


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