COL. inconsistent

Questions and discussions and troubleshooting Lee Load Master presses

Moderator: darwin

Jal5
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:36 pm

COL. inconsistent

Postby Jal5 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:53 pm

New to LM but have been reloading single stage 4 yrs. got a used press bought the Pro Autodisk measure. Finally got the indexing sorted out. But now the rounds are inconsistent OAL running from 1.274-1.284-1.324 when I set the dies for 1.270 using a dummy round.

The brass was primed off the press and resized off press. Bullets are 230 gr XTreme plated brass is mixed manufacturers. Used Lee dies station 1&2 empty 3 powder thru expander 4 bullet seater 5 taper crimp die.
No primer installed for now.
Have read and viewed a lot of material here and MM pages and Lee too. Thanks in advance for the help.

R1200R
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:17 pm

Postby R1200R » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:12 am

I've struggled with this myself. This excerpt is from Titan Reloadings website in their FAQ section;

Seating Depth Variations
There are a number of possible causes for overall length variation. One is the way it is measured. If you measure overall length from the tip of the bullet to the base of the case, remember to subtract the variation due to bullet length tolerance. The bullets will vary in length due to manufacturing tolerances (bullets with exposed lead noses are the worst in this regard) and this will add to the overall cartridge length variation. Remember that the bullet seater plug does not (or shouldn't) contact the tip of the bullet when seating, but contacts farther down the ogive. For a more accurate seating depth measurement, take the seater plug out of the bullet seating die, place it on top of the cartridge and measure from the base of the case to the top of the seater plug.

Another possible cause for bullet seating depth variation is seating and crimping at the same time when trying to apply a firm crimp to untrimmed cases. Variation in case length also causes variation in the amount of crimp applied. Long cases get a heavier crimp than short ones. When seating and crimping at the same time, the crimp is formed as the bullet is seated into the case. The crimp will form sooner on a long case, and therefore the bullet will not be seated as deeply. The solution is to seat and crimp in a separate step (the Lee Factory Crimp die is good for this) and/or trim cases to a uniform length.

The amount of force required to cycle a progressive press varies with the number of cases in the shell plate. When the shell plate is full, it is harder to lower the lever than when there are one or two cases present. This can lead to variation in cartridge overall length because there are different loads placed on the working parts of the press. When the shell plate is full, seating depth will be slightly long, because the load is higher and all of the clearances are taken up. With the shell plate nearly empty, the load is not great enough to squeeze out these clearances, and the seating depth is short.

Hope this helps some.

I tend to check the first few bullets during a run, then start checking every 10 or so, making a few tweaks here and there, after 100 I usually let her rip. My pistol has no problem with the lengths I get, they feed fine.

Jal5
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:36 pm

Postby Jal5 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:52 am

Thanks that was a really helpful description. I will reset the dies again taking the full shellplate into consideration and see where i get. Some variation is expected but i would like to decrease it some without adding any more $$$ into this press. :lol:

Sparky45
Posts: 972
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:12 pm

Postby Sparky45 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:37 am

If you're really serious about limiting OAL variations, see MIKES RELOADING BENCH that can be accessed from this website. He WILL practically eliminate the OAL problem(s) with his Turret mods.

magic mike
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:33 am
Location: TX

Postby magic mike » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:52 pm

Jal5, watch the video in the thread above this one. It is very doable to get consistent COAL measurements on the LM.

mike

prs
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:44 pm

Postby prs » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:57 pm

From the information cited above: "There are a number of possible causes for overall length variation. One is the way it is measured. If you measure overall length from the tip of the bullet to the base of the case, remember to subtract the variation due to bullet length tolerance. The bullets will vary in length due to manufacturing tolerances (bullets with exposed lead noses are the worst in this regard) and this will add to the overall cartridge length variation. Remember that the bullet seater plug does not (or shouldn't) contact the tip of the bullet when seating, but contacts farther down the ogive. For a more accurate seating depth measurement, take the seater plug out of the bullet seating die, place it on top of the cartridge and measure from the base of the case to the top of the seater plug."

I think the writer is confusing COL with some other aspect. COL is by definition from tip to base. Bullet length variations will not affect it unless the seating plug does not fit properly or the bullets are malformed. I prefer a flat seating plug, but then again I have no use of pointy bullets.

prs

erle
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:15 pm

Postby erle » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:23 am

Sparky45 wrote:If you're really serious about limiting OAL variations, see MIKES RELOADING BENCH that can be accessed from this website. He WILL practically eliminate the OAL problem(s) with his Turret mods.


AMEN to that! I fiddled with c.o.l. for months & it was never very consistent. The only way I remedied it was by getting Magic Mike's Turret Stabilizer. I also have his new Turret's on both of my LLM's. They are not cheap but they get the job done, where the cheap ones don't.

If you don't want to pay the extra to get the quality Turret's, you should at least send him your Lee turrets & have the mod's done, then use those with his stabilizer plate. That is, if you want consistent c.o.l. Personally, I would put that money on the new Turret which has the mod's built in, & use it with the Stabilizer Plate.

piratepast40
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:35 pm

Postby piratepast40 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:11 pm

By the time you pay for shipping both ways, you might as well get the billet turret from Mike. I'm using the turret and stabilizer plate and it makes life much easier.

When starting a run with a different OAL, I try to use the same brand of brass. Doesn't really matter which brand, it's just another variable to eliminate.

Jal5
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:36 pm

Postby Jal5 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:05 pm

I got the COL straightened out. Used dies in stations 1345. Sizer, empty, PTED, seater, taper crimp. Not priming on press for now. Only 0.002 variation. If I can keep it like that it's ok for my pistol rounds. Now to work out the case slider issues. It works on/off sometimes getting in the way as it slides the case. Not working like the videos. I plan to take it apart clean and make sure there are no burrs on any of the sliding parts.

fmj3
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:00 pm

Postby fmj3 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:46 am

If the slider is hanging up on the shell plate or case you may want to back out the feed bracket nut one turn or maybe just loosen the tension screw on the crank slider a touch.

Jal5
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:36 pm

Postby Jal5 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:46 am

I cleaned some old grease off the slider, square rod, and the other piece. Cleaned and smoothed out some of the metal parts with 0000 steel wool basically polishing. No lube on any part. But it hangs up and chatters now and won't smoothly insert the case at all. Read that it can use a touch of STP oil treatment where the slider runs on the edge of it's runway. I may try that.

fmj3
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:00 pm

Postby fmj3 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:34 am

A little oil on the slider rails helps, but in my experience chatter in the case feed system is generally from the crank slider on the square feed bracket.

rowe_s
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 pm

Postby rowe_s » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:49 am

Jal5 wrote:I cleaned some old grease off the slider, square rod, and the other piece. Cleaned and smoothed out some of the metal parts with 0000 steel wool basically polishing. No lube on any part. But it hangs up and chatters now and won't smoothly insert the case at all. Read that it can use a touch of STP oil treatment where the slider runs on the edge of it's runway. I may try that.


What I did. Plus the brace helped a lot by supporting the square rod.
http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/foru ... ight=brace

carload9
Posts: 1976
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:52 am

webster products

Postby carload9 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:40 pm

If ya wanta rid the forum of this thread, pm webster and buy his alum parts, sliders, feeds, keeper spring and such and you can toss this thread. I have websters stuff, it's incredible. The plastic stuff is not heavy enough. I'll try to make a vid.

Jal5
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:36 pm

Postby Jal5 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:40 pm

I probably will end up buying some new parts. It's a good thing I like to tinker.


Return to “Load Master forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests