indexing rod aperature

Questions and discussions and troubleshooting Lee Load Master presses

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Jim_Duncan
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:55 pm
Location: Winter Haven, Fla

indexing rod aperature

Postby Jim_Duncan » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:12 pm

Was searching for a lost O ring and just happened to look up from the below eye level of the LM and noticed the square opening that the rod enters through. It seems quite boogered up (is that a word?) or having very rough edges on the right side. As if it got into a fight with a can opener. I have to assume this will effect the carrier alignment process? Thinking of ordering another carrier and having it drop shipped to Mike. Yes, it runs like sweetness for a bit then gives me headaches.

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Gillie Dog
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Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Gillie Dog » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:33 pm

I do not think it would affect carrier alignment. I am having a hard time visualizing where you are indicating. With the shell plate off you can slide the indexer in and out and see what goes on. Maybe flashing from die casting??? Carrier alignment is done with shell plate on, indexer pushed all the way in and ram part way up so clearance to frame casting can be set. Should be the same "clearance" of flipper to frame all the time. Once set should always work.

GD

Jim_Duncan
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Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:55 pm
Location: Winter Haven, Fla

Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Jim_Duncan » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:10 pm

I removed the carrier tonight and took a good look at it. Evidently the shadows were fooling my eyes. Seems ok and there are no burrs anywhere. Mike machined this one for me so it's pretty smooth. Must be other issue. Will replace the flipper and the index rod as well as the shell ejector plate. When I reset the carrier and attempt to index... requires a wrench to get the indexer out of the carrier. Something ugly going on, but I fail to see anything that would cause it. Alignment seems by the book. Oh well.

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Gillie Dog
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Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Gillie Dog » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:12 pm

Screw the flipper in/on a couple turns and see what happens, hard to pull out indexer is usually binding on shell plate. Ejector must be bent properly to prevent counter rotation after indexing, that way the indexer can have a little slop against shell plate and still get proper shell plate alignment. If you get excessive counter rotation bend ejector "paul" as shown in manual. If paul does not drop into hole at end of indexing need to bow it out a little to shorten it up.

Ejector thumb screw should be just snug on its o'ring, not tight, makes indexing hard if to tight. Whole thing should dry cycle with two finger pressure for whole stroke up and down.

Just thoughts, you might have tried all this already.

GD

Jim_Duncan
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Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:55 pm
Location: Winter Haven, Fla

Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Jim_Duncan » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:41 pm

Well, I divorced my LM last night. This morning I decided after a tank of coffee to court her one more time. Replaced the flipper only. (I wish they would thread those things.) It is indexing now, but stiffly. Lube and a new case ejector might help when my parts arrive. I have decided that although I do not or can't properly envision what is happening under that shell plate that is so very very touchy as relates to the carrier position...that it is in fact for reasons I simply can't understand infinitely critical where that carrier lands and is tightened down. I understand what transpires when you cycle the press... but not the razors edge you must balance on to get that sweet spot. Has anyone attempted to remove the notched teeth on the top of the ram to give us a tad more adjustability? Seems like it would be a nightmare but I am not a machinist. Just rambling while topping up on my second cup of Joe.

Oh and thank you GD for the input. Sometimes I forget to quote and respond but I read all comments and appreciate the info.

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Gillie Dog
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Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Gillie Dog » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:31 pm

My experience is that to tight of shell plate thumb screw is all I have found to make indexing stiff. And flipper to far out makes indexer hard to pull out. Ejector should not make any difference other than counter rotation. The shell plate needs to be able to wiggle a tiny bit when indexed and the ejector plate sets how much it can move backwards. I run mine so only one shell plate station is snug when indexed and all the others wiggle a tiny bit because the ejector limits counter rotation. This only one snug station is a reflection on shell plate manufacture.

Carrier location can be adjusted mid "tooth" by just holding it firmly in place when tightening draw bolt. This will mash the aluminum into another tooth location and away you go.

I have only adjusted the carriers on my machines once but I do have to adjust flipper between shell plates at times. Also Mike suggested to grind/file bevel on all four sides of indexer to get 1/4 turn adjustability out of it in order to get "problem" shell plates to index nicer. Have yet to try that.

One caveat here is I am only running four pistol calibers as of now so my experience is limited to them. And longest run with out a hiccup was 2K 45ACP and that was over several evenings, it can be done and done regularly once you are at peace with the machine.

GD

rowe_s
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Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby rowe_s » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:10 am

When I bought my first Loadmaster I could tighten the shell plate finger tight. After getting everything working properly with the num. 19 shell plate I started on the num. 4 and 2.

I had to mill down the Num. 4 and num. 2 shell plates to be able to tighten the shell plate nut. After doing that all other functions worked.

I repeated the process for my second Loadmaster to make it work. Now I just use Loadmaster number 2 for decapping so there is less to keep working properly there.

Jim_Duncan
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Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:55 pm
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Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Jim_Duncan » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:56 am

rowe_s wrote:When I bought my first Loadmaster I could tighten the shell plate finger tight. After getting everything working properly with the num. 19 shell plate I started on the num. 4 and 2.

I had to mill down the Num. 4 and num. 2 shell plates to be able to tighten the shell plate nut. After doing that all other functions worked.

I repeated the process for my second Loadmaster to make it work. Now I just use Loadmaster number 2 for decapping so there is less to keep working properly there.


Do you mean they were sitting too high?

llangston1
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Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby llangston1 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:34 pm

So how did the new flipper work for you. I put a new flipper on my press and started having indexing issues . I eventually went back to my old black plastic flipper and the press seems to work smoother now.

Jim_Duncan
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:55 pm
Location: Winter Haven, Fla

Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Jim_Duncan » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:48 pm

llangston1 wrote:So how did the new flipper work for you. I put a new flipper on my press and started having indexing issues . I eventually went back to my old black plastic flipper and the press seems to work smoother now.


It works but the cycle is still very stiff. I have eliminated the index rod as a culprit. Also the flipper. It has boiled down to either the case ejector (very doubtful) or merely the luck of the draw when you tighten down the ram during the alignment procedure. It seems a very narrow window. Still tinkereing....

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Gillie Dog
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Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Gillie Dog » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:11 am

It is starting to sound like the draw bolt has been tightened so tight the carrier center post has swelled up. Without the index rod in place does the shell plate fully seat and rotate easily? I had one carrier which I had to clean/sand down the center post on because it had been torqued to Lee specification and the center post had gotten fatter at the bottom where the shell plate seats down. Particularly an issue with "new" style shell plates.

Carrier alignment should have nothing to do with stiff indexing. You have an interesting one here.

GD

Jim_Duncan
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:55 pm
Location: Winter Haven, Fla

Re: indexing rod aperature

Postby Jim_Duncan » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:49 am

Yes, the shell plate spins like glass without the index rod. However, I have removed the primer trough and now it indexes like a new machine. This is not the first time I have primed off press because of the primer system somehow creating drag on the indexing. I cleaned the well out so it appears to bottom out fully but somehow it seems to be the culprit. I would guess the indexing drag was reduced by over 50% when I removed the trough. I also had a few 40 caliber rounds seating .020 high at odd times. I could actually see the shell plate lifting up when seating the bullet. Now without the primer system they are so accurate on COL it is scary. Something is forcing the trough up and into the bottom of the shell plate. I am sure of it. Primer pin? Hmmm... the search is narrowing.


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