Seen Pro1000 last weekend

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helg
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Seen Pro1000 last weekend

Postby helg » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:48 pm

Last weekend I was in my friend's house. He just bought new pro1000, and invited me, the Loadmaster owner, to check the pro1000 press. This is the first time when I see live pro1000.

First, this press is tiny. 3-hole shellplate looks like a toy. Turret with three dies is way smaller than the one on a Loadmaster. Distances between shells are about the same as on a Loadmaster.

Indexing looks smoother than on a Loadmaster. I would say that moving lever with the same speed as on a Loadmaster results in less acceleration of shells on a shellplate. This should prevent powder spillage when actuating the lever fast. The way that indexing is engineered: with the vertical hex rod that is screwed to rotate shellplate, which slides on the rod, is a good idea. Unlike Loadmaster, indexing does not start sharply, thus reducing the acceleration.

Unlike Loadmaster, turret does not have a locking screw. There is a significant vertical play of the turret. I would say it is over .03". We put a copper wire around the turret to eliminate the play. Did we miss something?

Seating primer "by feel" did not encourage me. Being a Loadmaster owner, I used to disregard the force on the lever that I push at the end of upstroke. Here I had to control the force.

There is no bin for loaded rounds, like in Loadmaster. The round is dropped to the left hand, and then can immediately be placed to ammo box. This may be good for counting, though looked unusual to me. Pro100 owners, do you catch the rounds by hand, or use a tray?

The nicest thing is that it works, and produces handgun ammo with the speed of a Loadmaster, for about 70% of its price.

kcbrown
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Re: Seen Pro1000 last weekend

Postby kcbrown » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:10 pm

Resurrecting this thread from the dead... :lol:

helg wrote:Indexing looks smoother than on a Loadmaster. I would say that moving lever with the same speed as on a Loadmaster results in less acceleration of shells on a shellplate. This should prevent powder spillage when actuating the lever fast. The way that indexing is engineered: with the vertical hex rod that is screwed to rotate shellplate, which slides on the rod, is a good idea. Unlike Loadmaster, indexing does not start sharply, thus reducing the acceleration.


The indexing on the Loadmaster can be smoother, actually. It depends on your technique. I usually slow my stroke a little once I reach the point where the indexing operation is to occur, and I do it gently (the press doesn't need a lot of force there). As a result, with 9mm I don't have any powder spillage from the cases on the Loadmaster.

The same can't be said of the Pro 1000, however. The spring loaded ball underneath the shellplate causes it to "snap" into position towards the end of the indexing operation, and this causes a tiny amount of powder to "jump" out of the case. My fix to that was to bend the retaining spring at station 3 in such a way that it would put some friction on the case as it's coming around into station 3, and that reduced the effect enough to almost (but not quite) eliminate the powder spillage.


Unlike Loadmaster, turret does not have a locking screw. There is a significant vertical play of the turret. I would say it is over .03". We put a copper wire around the turret to eliminate the play. Did we miss something?


In my experience, that movement has no real effect on the consistency of OAL you get from the rounds, because the turret always hits the upper stop at the same point each time around.


Seating primer "by feel" did not encourage me. Being a Loadmaster owner, I used to disregard the force on the lever that I push at the end of upstroke. Here I had to control the force.


A couple of observations on this:
  • The fact that you are pushing the primer into the pocket at the end of the stroke means you can feel the primer going in. This means you can feel when it goes wrong. If you are careful (as I am), you will be able to tell when the priming operation isn't going right before you put enough force on it to crush the primer. And that means you can save the primer at that point. Unfortunately, the Pro 1000 isn't really designed with failures here in mind. In order to investigate the issue, you have to rotate the shellplate slightly to move the case to the position where it can be removed, but if there's still an unseated primer there, it will be moved out of position by the movement of the shellplate. I'll just pluck the unseated primer from the pin and use it in the next batch of primers in that case.
  • If you're using a bunch of force during the indexing operation on the Loadmaster, then you're probably causing an inordinate amount of wear on the indexing rod or shellplate carrier, since pushing the indexing rod into the carrier will cause the indexing rod to snug up against the pins on the bottom of the shellplate, thus locking it into position. If you put a lot of force on the rod here, more force will be required to pull the indexing rod back out on the downstroke of the ram, which will increase the wear on the end of the rod, the shellplate carrier location that makes contact with the end of the rod, the pins on the shellplate, and the indexing flipper.
There is no bin for loaded rounds, like in Loadmaster. The round is dropped to the left hand, and then can immediately be placed to ammo box. This may be good for counting, though looked unusual to me. Pro100 owners, do you catch the rounds by hand, or use a tray?


I use a tray, and I often have to swipe the finished round from the chute into the tray. It's not a big deal or anything. I just make it part of the motion I use to place the bullet.


The nicest thing is that it works, and produces handgun ammo with the speed of a Loadmaster, for about 70% of its price.


In my experience, it actually does so more reliably than the Loadmaster, though with the latest shellplate design on the Loadmaster, that may change.

helg
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Postby helg » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:13 pm

Perfect timing.

A member on our local gun forum stated that he has spare Pro1000 that he does not use anymore. I am picking the press this weekend... and going to have first hand experience.

kcbrown
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Postby kcbrown » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:02 pm

helg wrote:Perfect timing.

A member on our local gun forum stated that he has spare Pro1000 that he does not use anymore. I am picking the press this weekend... and going to have first hand experience.


Very cool.

It's a fun little press. What caliber are you going to be loading with it?

There are a number of tips and tricks I've found for getting it working smoothly and reliably, almost all of them requiring that you disassemble the shellplate carrier:
  1. Put a piece of firm, high-density foam in the space next to the index adjustment screw, on the opposite side of the ratchet gear. There's a nice little space for it there. This will keep the screw from turning during press operation. Take a note of how that screw is located, too -- it belongs entirely within the carrier.
  2. Coat the underside of, and the edge of, the hole through which the drive bolt goes with a thin layer of grease. Make sure none of it gets on the top surface. This grease is needed there because the drive bolt rotates under upwards pressure, which causes the drive bolt to contact the underside of the shellplate carrier. Be sure, however, to avoid getting any grease on the top surface of the drive bolt where it mates to the shellplate if you can avoid it (the Loctite tip below will minimize the impact of that, however).
  3. DO NOT put any lubrication on the underside of the shellplate or the surface of the carrier. It's not needed. When indexing occurs, the shellplate is pushed up slightly and clears the carrier ever so slightly, so there's no real metal to metal contact between the shellplate and the carrier during indexing.
  4. Use purple or blue loctite on the threads of the drive bolt when assembling it and the shellplate. The reason for this is that raising the ram causes the hex ratchet to rotate in reverse while it's making contact with the removable plate on the bottom of the carrier, and there's some friction between the ratchet and the carrier. That friction gets transmitted as a slight amount of reverse axial force to the drive bolt. If the drive bolt is assembled finger-tight to the shellplate as per the Lee instructions, that reverse force can easily be enough to break the drive bolt loose while the shellplate is being held in place by the spring-loaded ball underneath it. When this happens, the end result will be a half-index of the shellplate on the downstroke of the ram as some of the rotation of the hex ratchet will be used up in snugging the drive bolt with the shellplate (i.e., undoing the loosening that was done on the upstroke of the ram). Loctite prevents the drive bolt from breaking loose that way, thus preventing the half-indexing problem.
  5. When putting the bottom plate back on (which I recommend after, and not before, assembling the shellplate to the drive bolt), place it so that it is snug against the screw, so that the screw cannot move inwards or outwards. Also align it so that the center hole through which the indexing rod goes is centered over the indexing assembly (it's easiest to assess this by sticking the indexing rod through the whole assembly).
  6. Put a thin coat of motor oil on the indexing rod. This will take care of the metal-to-metal contact the drive bolt makes with the indexing rod and will also provide a bit of lubrication to the hex ratchet. The indexing will go smoother as a result. You won't need much, and you shouldn't use much.
  7. Lee's instructions on adjusting the indexing are good but not sufficiently accurate for my purposes. The way I adjust it is to remove the casefeed slider, then follow the first part of their instructions which say to rotate the adjustment screw until the shellplate snaps into position. At that point I will, with one hand, apply clockwise pressure on the shellplate (not a lot, but enough to get the shellplate to hit the "stop" created by the indexing mechanism) and then, while applying that pressure, turn the indexing adjustment screw clockwise until the priming pin is perfectly centered within the shellplate cutout. Then double check the indexing by cycling the press a few times. Repeat as necessary. With the foam insert modification described above, the indexing should never come out of adjustment on its own except perhaps through wear.

helg
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Postby helg » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:48 pm

kcbrown

Thank you for the list of things to look into. I will revisit the list, as well as other threads at this forum, on Sunday, once I get the press.

By now, I do not know what caliber is the kit, and whether is has all parts. I plan to make it working perfectly with one of semi-auto pistol calibers. When it succeeds, which I am quite confident with, the press will wait till one of my fellow shooters matures to crank his own ammo.

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Catholicseymour
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Postby Catholicseymour » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:53 pm

helg wrote:Perfect timing.

A member on our local gun forum stated that he has spare Pro1000 that he does not use anymore. I am picking the press this weekend... and going to have first hand experience.


Great helg! :lol: I am currently using the Pro 1000 and just ordered the LM in 40 S&W... I will be setting it up this weekend. I will be glad to help you in any way I can. It really is a pretty neat little press. I have made some pretty good ammo with it. In fact a friend asked me where I was buying my ammo and all I could do was grin! I should have enough parts left over from my upgrade to have a complete P1K with extra parts that I can make someone a good deal on. On the other hand if I keep it I was thinking of giving it to some young man or gal that was worthy. Feel free to read my posts and see if there is any help I can offer.

Don

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darwin
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Postby darwin » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:28 pm

I've always thought the P1K was better for revolver calibers, where you'll be crimping with the bullet seating dies. I always use the FCD with semi auto ammo, but that's is a personal preference.

kcbrown
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Postby kcbrown » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:03 pm

darwin wrote:I've always thought the P1K was better for revolver calibers, where you'll be crimping with the bullet seating dies. I always use the FCD with semi auto ammo, but that's is a personal preference.


The built-in crimper on the bullet seating die works just fine for semi-auto ammo in my experience. It takes some care to set it up properly (for auto pistol rounds, it's not really crimping as such that you want, but really just removing the flare), but it works well once you have it set up properly.

In fact, it works well enough that I have my Loadmaster set up with two of them (the redundancy is there to guarantee that a given round gets the right OAL even in the event you get a crushed sideways primer while sizing, since the crushed primer will have an effect on how much you can raise the ram).

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darwin
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Postby darwin » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:50 pm

My theory is that I wouldn't have to trim brass and variations in case length wouldn't cause different amounts of crimp. I have no idea if pistol brass even NEEDS to be trimmed. :?

helg
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Postby helg » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:50 pm

darwin wrote:My theory is that I wouldn't have to trim brass and variations in case length wouldn't cause different amounts of crimp. I have no idea if pistol brass even NEEDS to be trimmed. :?
My preparation process for most of 9x19 brass includes trimming. After trimming, it becomes perfectly uniformed 18.00 mm brass, loads smoothly, and shoots accurately from my Makarov :).

I have heard many times that lead (read: .001" oversized) bullets on calibers with almost no taper may squeeze the bullet, and end with leading. Though my Lee dies do not show this problem with any caliber. Even in 45ACP carbide ring is .4745" in diameter. .001" oversized bullet with brass gives .4740" neck diameter, which is close, though still not squeezing the bullet.
Last edited by helg on Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

kcbrown
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Postby kcbrown » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:31 am

helg wrote:
darwin wrote:My theory is that I wouldn't have to trim brass and variations in case length wouldn't cause different amounts of crimp. I have no idea if pistol brass even NEEDS to be trimmed. :?
My preparation process for most of 9x19 brass includes trimming. After trimming, it becomes perfectly uniformed 18.00 mm brass, loads smoothly, and shoots accurately from my Makarov :).


Where do you shoot? I ask so I can make sure to avoid picking up "9mm Luger" brass at your range. :lol:

helg
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Postby helg » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:48 am

kcbrown wrote:Where do you shoot? I ask so I can make sure to avoid picking up "9mm Luger" brass at your range. :lol:
You do not have to. I do not leave any single piece of the trimmed brass at the range, thanks to my brasscatcher.

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Catholicseymour
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Postby Catholicseymour » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:10 am

darwin wrote:My theory is that I wouldn't have to trim brass and variations in case length wouldn't cause different amounts of crimp. I have no idea if pistol brass even NEEDS to be trimmed. :?


In my very limited experience :oops: I don't believe it stretches like necked brass and my mentor that has been doing it for 18 years says that it is really unnecessary if you are using a factory crimp die, however with the seater die combination the COL will vary a little due the small differences. The solution if you are wanting to be supper precise is to trim them all to the same length or just cull them and run accordingly. For myself +or - .005 is an acceptable tolerance. One thing that has helped on the Pro 1000 is that I de-cap all my brass before I tumble it. With 9mm's I also swage them all rather than cull out the crimped stuff.

1911A1
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Postby 1911A1 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:34 pm

Yeah, the guy I learned to reload from has been doing it for 20+ years, and does it for IIRC 12 calibers now, has never trimmed a piece of pistol brass (well except chopping down .308's for his 45 win mag ) and I MAY have to trim .45's when I start forming those for .400 corbon. (I have buckets of .45 brass)

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Hawkmoon
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Postby Hawkmoon » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:57 pm

.45 Auto brass tends to get shorter after repeated firing, not longer. Dunno about 9mm -- I don't reload for that much so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to such minutiae for that caliber.


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