Case mangled after ejection???

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THRASH
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Case mangled after ejection???

Postby THRASH » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:48 am

Went to the range yesterday and had my first reload hang-ups:
1) One failure to eject (likely under-charge from slung powder).
2) Three cases (of 500) were picked up, mangled during ejection* (did not jam)
3) One squib load & bullet lodged ("Pop" instead of "Bang," and case jammed, so no danger and was able to clear the barrel, but scary nonetheless).

* Can someone clue me into what likely happened to these 3 cases (Photo attached)? Shooting a .40 S&W 411, .40 S&W 180 gr. Speer TMJ Plinker bullets, with 7.0 gr. of Power Pistol??? Please help and thanks mucho!

Image[/img]

magic mike
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Postby magic mike » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:35 pm

If I were a betting man I would say that your extractor tension needs some work. As I understand it, this is best left to the folks at S@W as it is not as easy to do as it is on a standard 1911 (requires special tools). Anyway, bottom line is that the case is not clearing the ejection port before the slide comes forward.

mike

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THRASH
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Postby THRASH » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:15 pm

Thanks MM, but a few things to ponder:
1) These 3 mangles were out of 50 rounds charged with 7.0 gr. of Power-Pistol.
2) This was the first time this happened w/this pistol and the first time I used PP, after maybe 2000 rounds reloaded with Win. Accu-Comp, and maybe 4000 stock rounds.
3) This did not happen with any of the previous 6000 rounds in the past nor the 150 Accu-Comps fired yesterday before firing the 50 PP rounds (which also produced the squib-lodge), nor with any of the 125 stock-ammo rounds fired after the PP rounds yesterday???

Maybe I was slinging powder when using the Power-Pistol? But I go pretty slow and steady. ANYWAY, what caused the CRUNCH on the casings and then they ejected to the floor, no jams? Maybe the spring is too loose or too tight (but all those other rounds fired flawlessly). Everything was golden and flawless until the Power Pistol was used, just saying.

carload9
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mrass

Postby carload9 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:06 pm

you got a mess. Its called "mrass."

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THRASH
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Postby THRASH » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:23 pm

Did you mean "Morass?"

So what I need to know is what and how was this case mangled? Guessing it was pulled out and slammed back into the barrel by the slide as it was being ejected? Anyone else ever seen this happen? It was almost identical on 3 separate rounds.

Image

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Hawkmoon
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Postby Hawkmoon » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:08 pm

I've seen it fairly often on 1911s. Your analysis is correct: Rather than tossing the empty brass out of the gun, it stays in the slide and gets crunched when the slide returns to battery. My guess is that your load is too light to cycle the slide. You could test that theory by shooting the same load using a recoil spring maybe 2 pounds lighter, or by addiing a couple of tenths to your powder charge.

I have no load data for Power Pistol. Where did you get the charge you used? Is that a starting charge or a maximum charge?
Last edited by Hawkmoon on Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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THRASH
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Postby THRASH » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:25 pm

Great reply Hawk, awesome forum.

When I was loading I think I went a bit fast for a bit and slung powder (thus the light charges). These were charged at 6.9 to 7.1, with a Max of 7.2 stated on the PP website. Undercharging is certainly the reason, there were and are too many "successful" other shots to mean much else. I'll do another set and see. BUT I'm going to stick with the Accu-Comp now, PP seems difficult so far.

-Thanks mucho

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Hawkmoon
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Postby Hawkmoon » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:39 pm

I found a recipe for the weight bullet on the powder manufacturer's web site that called for a maximum of 7.2 grains -- that must be what you used. But are you using the same bullet? Even within a specific weight, there is considerable variation between manufacturers in bullet overall length, and bullt body length (the part that goes inside the case). Over on the <1911.org forum, in the Reloading discussion area, we set out some time ago to compile a database of bullet dimensions, for use by people looking for recipes with bullets that aren't listed in the major reloading data sources.

Most of our data is, naturally, for .45 ACP, but the principle remains the same. If your bullet is shorter than the one listed in the recipe, and you load to the same COAL, you leave more empty volume in the case. That results in lower velocity, and lower recoil energy to cycle the slide.

Example: I reload in .45 ACP using Berry's 230-grain plated round-nose bullets. There are NO load data anywhere for Berry's bullets. I called Brry's and they said to use mid-range loads for jacketed bullets.

Okay -- I did that. And when I ran my first cartridges through the chronograph, they were chugging along at under 750 fps where the load data was telling me I should be seeing in excess of 800 fps. Why? Because the Berry's 230-grain bullet is significantly shorter than the bullet Winchester used in compiling the load data, but I had loaded to the same COAL.

In fact, I still load to the same COAL. But I am now loading to 2 tenths over the "maximum," and my velocities still aren't up to those of factory ammo.

Sparky45
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Postby Sparky45 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:12 pm

Good stuff Hawkmoon; I'm a member over at 1911 and I'll revisit your compilation of data again.
Sparky

carload9
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gm

Postby carload9 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:52 pm

l use ta have a keltec p3at that would do that to brass.

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THRASH
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Postby THRASH » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:46 am

So when this happened with your KelTec did you undercharge those reloads? I'm hesitant to blame the extractor, as it hardly happened on my reloads and never happened with factory ammo.

Image

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THRASH
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UPDATE

Postby THRASH » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:18 am

UPDATE:

Meant to post this last year, sorry, but I started loading with a Lee .40 U-Sizing Die (Undersize Die) w/o pin in station 2 (on LLM), and after maybe 600 rounds, this ejector-crunch problem never happened. And as I had stated, it had never happened at all with factory ammo. It may also have been Glock brass I p/u? I also run all range brass through the bulge-buster before running through press, right after cleaning. Yee-haw!!! :P


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